Posts by drew sagan

59

a couple of movies I don't get

by Hortensia in

jw
friends

i watched "children of men" a couple of nights ago.

it was pretty interesting, but i have to say i didn't get it completely.

maybe because i missed the beginning.

drew sagan

Children of Men examined the question "what would we do if we knew we were doomed?"

What makes Children of Men different from many other films in the same niche is that the problem mankind faces is completely of unknown origin. It is not clear why humanity has become infertile. This being the case much of what we are left with is the portrayal of human actions in a world that is seemingly out of control. While the story does contain some hope (mainly in the form of a young pregnant girl) there are still many unknowns. These unknowns are part of the story and should not be seen as a lack there of. Humanity faces many problems that are simply beyond the label of 'good vs. evil' and I think this film displays this well.

I don't get most of David Lynch's stuff. Mulholland Drive went pretty much over my head.

I actually think Mullholland Drive is one of the eaiser to understand Lynch movies, besides The Straight Story. Now don't get me started on an explanation of Eraserhead ;)

6

Studying harder than ever

by JimmyPage in

jw
friends

when i was growing up in the cult of the borg i studied hard and made "spiritual progress" quickly.

but after finding the reality of the society's promises unfulfilling i stopped studying and was rather proud of what the wt called "the permafrost of the brain".

in the past year i have studied my religious upbringing harder than ever, but in a completely different way.

drew sagan

Very much so. You don't want to see how many books I bought when I first came out!

12

LORRI MacGREGOR: "CANADA GAGS THE GOSPEL"

by Dogpatch in

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friends

lorri macgregor: "canada gags the gospel"http://sharpens.blogspot.com/2008/02/lorri-macgregor-canada-gags-gospel.html.

lorri macgregor, co-founder along with her husband keith of macgregor ministries a christian counter-cult apologetics organization in british columbia, canada, will address the theme: "canada gags the gospel.

" the canadian government will not allow any critiques of other religions.

drew sagan

I have mixed feelings about MacGregor Ministries.

One of my biggest problems with most of the literature and media that I have viewed produced by their ministry (and others like it) is in the way they characterize and explain the problems of high control 'cult' groups. Large portions of their material focus on how the theology and doctrine of the JWs conflicts with their own version of Christianity, and thus it is by this method they seek to show that the JWs are evil and wrong.

Any 'Christian outreach' ministry is seeking not only to publicize the flaws of groups like the JWs, but also views itself as a mechanism to draw people into their own religious belief system (usually 'born again' christianity). In their desire to convert and change minds to their viewpoint they debate using sophomoric and sarcastic arguments. They view their 'battle' with the Watchtower in much the same over the top manner which JWs view them, mainly that they are in a struggle between the forces of good and evil. Any signs that the other side is winning is viewed that we are living in 'troublesome times'.

I'll admit that if things are the way Mrs. MacGregor described, then it does appear that she is being treated unfairly. The problem I have is that I have seen ministries likes hers misrepresent and stretch the truth about certain issues far to many times to think that something isn't being embellished here. The phrasing and wording used to describe the practices of the Canadian government were very generic and did not give specific references to the legislation impeding their work. How about a well documented paper that actually describes this unfair process rather than some generic complaining. I didn't even get a real clear idea of how these problems are effecting the was Mrs. MacGregor goes about her work.

Sorry to go on such a rant but I'm just not a big fan of some of these ministries out there. I'm sure some of them (or even the majority) do some good work but I just disagree with them. They have their opinions and they are entitled to them, I too have my own.

41

Did you ever feel like a "Traitor" posting here?

by Dirty Rat in

jw
friends

maybe at first, or maybe you still feel this way, that you shouldn't be here........

drew sagan

The feeling eventually passed :)

43

This is how JW's view the change in the book study

by TooBad TooSad in

a very good friend of mine is convinced that the change in the book study arrangement.

is a sign that the end is so near and the jehovah made the change to emphasize the.

importance of the meetings.

drew sagan

Witnesses will personally invent various explanations to describe why the change has been put forward. Nothing new there.

For the most part JWs buy into the idea that the governing body knows special information that they do not know. When they see changes happening within their organization their initial thoughts are that such things are being brought about not by some sort of practical logic, but because this special body of men 'knows' something about what the group is expecting to happen in the future.

When JWs talk about how changes in their organization reflect something to do with end times I view it as proof of a mode of thinking they constantly deny is contained within their faith.

The memberships eagerness to see things as proof that the end is near shows just how naive and vulnerable they really are. It shows how dependent they are upon the utterances of their religions leadership. It also shows how episodes such as the 1975 fiasco are completely the fault of the Watchtower leadership. They create an atmosphere in which people become fanatically obsessed with every action of their religions leadership, viewing it as a 'sign' that the end is near. Then when those people overreact on such hints dropped by the leadership (or very big hints such as 1975) the leadership blames the members for getting over excited.

Watchtower leadership is so irresponsible in the way it treats its members. I say they should keep doing it. It makes them a weak and vulnerable religion.

42

Are Believers Truly Humble?

by serotonin_wraith in

if you are non religious, do you still feel those with religion show a higher level of humility than others in society?.

on the face of it, i feel most would answer in the affirmative.. but breaking it down, i find it harder and harder to accept.

in fact, i'd call it the opposite of humility.

drew sagan

Humility: the quality or condition of being humble; modest opinion or estimate of one's own importance, rank, etc.

Personally I believe humility is a rare quality among 'believers' and 'non believers' alike, mainly because as people we tend to always view our own opinions and ideas in a more idealized light than is necessary. These feelings I believe are more attributed to our experience as individuals rather than any particular dogma or methodologies we may profess.

26

How many JW that are not raised in the truth have left the organization?

by THE_CHOSEN_ONE in

according to watch tower statistics about 30000 thousand people per year left the organization.

my question is: how many of them in are not raised in the truth?

sorry for my poor english.

drew sagan

I first came in contact with the JWs while in high school. I converted when I was 17, with no family members in the religion. I eventually left years later.

I essentially see my conversion to the JWs as the direct result of the "bait and switch" method of conversion. I have made a resent post on the subject here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/157371/1.ashx

Once I realized that the bait (things like paradise earth, the failures of mainstream christianity, 'bible alone' theology, cross vs torture stake, ect) is always inferior to the beliefs they switch on you (like the 'faithful slave' dogma) I realized that I had been forcefully tricked into becoming a member. I take personal responsibility for falling into this trap, but I still will call it what it is. This process of trickery is not formulated by individual members, rather it is perpetuated by the Watchtower Society. They set the course for what Witnesses say in field service and they are responsible for the lack of clarity given to new members.

34

It's "lie through my teeth" time again.

by easyreader1970 in

jw
friends

well, the elders are coming over tomorrow for a shepherding call with me and my wife.

i am sure they will discuss my low hours in the field ministry and how i am not doing everything i could be doing.

for my wife's sake, i will be good and mostly "smile and nod".

drew sagan

If you wish to fade then your choice to 'lie' is a reasonable one.

Sometimes the best thing you can do is actually not only go along with what they say, but actually show that it has an effect. Up your meeting attendance for a week or so, then cut back again. The Elders will become very tired with you and eventually cut way back in there interest to 'help' you. How many times will they give you a shepherding call? eventually they will get frustrated and lay off.

29

Please Share your Experiences of Abusive Judicial Committee Meetings

by flipper in

jw
friends

i had noticed on the board recently of several posters mentioning what they , or someone they know has gone through being brought before a jehovah's witness judicial committee - so i thought it would be good to share experiences so we all can get an idea of what has worked for some of you in dealing with it , and also methods to use when dealing with the elders , and it might open some lurkers eyes to the injustices suffered by many - which by the way usually isn't discussed in the rank and file witnesses .

many of you know my experience - so i will be brief.

long story short i was inactive for 3 and a half years , scripturally free to remarry , had not attended meetings for that long.

drew sagan

Me and my wife had not gone to the Kingdom Hall for many months until we were called to a JC. The reason being is that a certain family member informed the elders that we had joined the YMCA. If it had not been for this I am sure we would have been left alone.

So what can you expect to happen at your JC? Before you go ask yourself these questions:

- Do the Elders personally view me in favorable or unfavorable terms?
- Have I confirmed to the Elders (or any JW) that I indeed did break a Watchtower rule that can bring about DF?
- How long has it been since I have gone to the meetings?
- Are there other people bringing charges against me?

In my own personal case, the Elders had a very unfavorable opinion of me because I had a few conversations with them in which I discussed my doubts that it was 'the truth'. I also had stopped going to meetings for months. These things still weren't enough to bring charges against me, but when the YMCA thing came out they had what they wanted. In the case of my wife the Elders were particularly peeved that she still had contact with her family while at the same time 'breaking the rules'. During the 2nd JC (which took place after I had DA'd myself, but my wife did not) one Elder repeatedly said that my wife shouldn't think that she could hang on just so she could "talk with Mom and Dad and her sister'.

We got such poor treatment mostly because we scared them. Since I know what they said after I left the room (hint hint) I can tell you that they were very afraid. Fear breeds anger, and that guided our treatment in the JC. Maybe someday I will get a transcript.

Unless you decided to bend and twist to everything they want from you, expect an uphill battle. The stronger more stubborn men on the JC will force the more timid and less judgement over to their side. At the end of the day I was able to come out of the JC without being DF'd but knew that it would eventually happen, so I decided to DA. My wife on the other hand decided to let the Elders drop the ax on her rather that leave voluntarily.

Sometimes people read stories such as mine and get really scared and worked up about their JC. NOT ALL JC MEETINGS ARE LIKE THIS ONE! If you answer the questions I listed above differently that I did you may have a different experience. A JC is not the end all. I could have avoided DF if I made changes to my lifestyle, like moving to a new congregation, attend meetings for a few months, then fade again never telling those new Elders any of my doubts. That had a very good chance of working but I had no desire to waste my time any longer in the JW system.

So realize that every case is different. Make decisions based upon what you are comfortable with and hope for the best.

11

Is the JW religion slowly turning into 7th Day Adventist?

by White Dove in

a friend of mine says they seem to be.

her sister sent a memorial invitation and said, "will you be going to the memorial of christ's death?

" she said that the use of "christ" was strange.

drew sagan

I believe this is exactly what they are doing, but not because they want to. It is because they have been forced to change.

The Seventh Day Adventist Church adapted because they eventually realized that they needed to go mainstream in order to secure growth and security. To much emphasis on end times is short sighted and self destructive. I believe the Seventh Day Adventist is the model that the JWs will eventually most resemble, but that may be decades away.